Inside H2F: How Interdisciplinary Teams Turn Small Changes Into Big Results

What if the fastest way to raise performance isn’t a new protocol but a new relationship? We pull up a chair with Hunter Treuchet, Holistic Health and Fitness Director for the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, to trace his journey from collegiate strength and conditioning coach to leading one of the Army’s most visible human performance programs—and to unpack why trust, access, and translation change everything.

Throughout his career, Hunter has focused on understanding the needs of both leaders and performers, an approach shaped early in his career when he learned the importance of balancing what athletes and operators want with what they need to succeed. Today, he applies that same philosophy to empowering his staff and advancing the evolution of military human performance programs, including expanding digital access to H2F resources.

Hunter takes us inside his experience working at the ground level with both POTFF and H2F, where strength coaches, athletic trainers, physical therapists, dietitians, occupational therapists, and cognitive performance specialists operate as one team. He explains how interdisciplinary care tackles problems at the subclinical level—addressing sleep, nutrition, pain, training load, and mindset before they become profiles. We dig into the Febrary 2026 H2F ROI study showing drops in musculoskeletal, behavioral health, and substance profiles alongside performance gains, and we connect those numbers to a team of experts teaching simple, scalable habits in real time.

The conversation gets tactical: onboarding processes that create shared language, “Army 101” for new staff, field immersions that drive real buy-in, and the art of giving people a little of what they want while delivering what they need. Hunter shares how warm handoffs and embedded access build credibility across clinics and commands, why the first SME you see is rarely the last, and how to protect quality when teams scale and turnover hits. For college and pro programs working with limited budgets, he offers a blueprint: seek outside expertise, stop at the edge of your lane, measure time-to-care and adherence, and design systems that outlast any single star.

If you care about human performance, readiness, and culture change that sticks, this one’s packed with field-tested insights and practical steps you can apply tomorrow. Enjoy the story, share it with your team, and if it resonates, subscribe, leave a review, and tell us which small habit moved your metrics the most.

The thoughts and opinions shared during this podcast are our own, and do not represent any agency or organization's views. As always, your journey is uniquely yours, and we always recommend consulting with your own professional team. 

Feb 2026 Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41678032/ 

Transcript

Meet Hunter And Set The Table

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Nice nice to see you, Hunter. How are you?

SPEAKER_05 1:04

Yeah, it's been a while. Doing good.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

It has been.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

It's nice to meet you. Thanks for coming over and hanging out with us.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Yeah, well, this is the good thing, right? I I get in early and then when your guys' podcast blows up and you're famous, we'll kind of know those guys pretty well.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

You're like, yeah, like maybe you had something to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

And you you know you never know. I would I wouldn't knock that.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Yeah, shout out to Hunter for putting us on the map.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

You move closer to base, but you're still on like the outskirts of like Montgomery.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

Oh, I'm I as the crow flies a half mile from Woodward. So like I'm on the south side of the lake now.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Is that some southern speak for where you live right now that the two of you get as the crow flies?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

We we used to live in the same neighborhood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Okay. All right. So that's a neighborhood, or that's like, you know, knee high to a grasshopper or just a stone skip from the county store.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, as far as we can throw a rock with the crowd, far too. That's crazy.

From College Strength Coach To Tactical

SPEAKER_01 2:14

No, we just, I mean, we're gonna, you know, hang out. I think we all have, I think we all think in pretty similar you know, ideas about interdisciplinary work. We've all kind of taught some similar programs. Hunter, you have a cool background, which I think I, you know, I look forward to having you tell us a little bit more about your perspective because strength and conditioning coaches, I've worked with good ones and I've worked with bad ones. But I will already give you a lot of space because you worked at my alma mater, Notre Dame. So I think you're already good people, but remains to be seen over the next hour. So, but thank you for coming and hanging out with us. And you want to tell us, I don't know, or maybe the listeners, we'll give we'll give them a little bit of taste, right? Like we obviously are gonna share your bio, but a little rundown of where you've been and and where you are now.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Yeah, absolutely. So my name's Hunter Trichet. Currently I'm the HQF director at First Brigade, 82nd Airborne. Uh, so running the holistic health and fitness program there. That is the tactical side and management side, is never where I saw myself. Originally started out as a collegiate strength and conditioning coach, was a kid at collegiate athlete. Love the human performance part of what we did to get better as athletes. Said, how do I continue to do this? Uh, was lucky enough to have a collegiate strength coach who kind of shepherded me into the career. And then I went right into collegiate strength and conditioning. I thought that's where I would be forever. Worked at a couple major schools, Villanova, College of William and Mary, Toston University, and then ended up at the University of Little Bay. And being at a larger school opened a lot of opportunities and met a lot of people. Had a coworker go out to the tactical side, out working with the NSW out in California. We kept in touch for good friends. He said, Hey, you you should really look in the tactical. I think you have the right mindset for it. You like to be more of a peer collaborator with the people you work with, and maybe necessarily a someone who's just going out there and coaching and doing a thing, having a conversation back and forth. So I said, uh, I don't know. I'm in the collegiate realm. Like I am, I am, I have arrived, I am at Notre Dame. Better facilities, better support, you know, size of staff, all those things were great. Um basically told me, hey, I'm this guy's gonna call you, talk to this guy about tactical. So it was one of the contract companies holding a contract at the time. I talked to him. They said, hey, you know, here is what you would do. Uh, here's the location it would be in. Oh, by the way, it would be at the beach in Northwest Florida, and this is the population you get to work with. Well, I think the best thing they could ever happen. Now, this was late November and stockbending the next.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I was just gonna ask if the timing was right, Florida would have been appealing.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

Started snowing, but I went back and I talked to my boss, who I look at as at the time, who I looked at as huge mentor, Anthony Rolinsky, and just said, Coach, this is this opportunity I have. I'm a little worried about leaving the collegiate field to do this thing that I knew nothing about. I know nothing about the tactical world. So tell me about it, told him about it, and he said, You would be crazy not to take this opportunity. You can always come back to the collegiate world if you want to, but he's like, you don't know what this is gonna look like in the future. Right. At at that time, not that human performance in tactical was fledgling, but it was still rather still rather new. Um just just essentially took the jump, went down to Northwest Florida working with special tactics as a strength and conditioning coach, got down there, started working with an interdisciplinary team, really liked it and latched on to it, and then just essentially right place at the right time. I I wanted to do more and make a bigger impact at the time our director was leaving, was able to fill that role and then just move through that for another five years, and then was lucky enough to come to HQF when it was first standing up and and why I am where I am now was not the organization to work with, not the you know, big army, not any of those things. It was I saw the package of staff that would be on a team, and I just thought to myself, you yeah, you can't not win with that amount of people working together. So, you know, that that's a long winding at this point, gosh, 21 years, but that's how I ended up where I am today.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, really um, I'm so intrigued because interestingly, right, like you're you were ground level into in probably the two biggest human performance programs in the military from Potif into H2F. You started with with PoDIF, what, 20 2012?

Standing Up POTFF And Early H2F

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Yeah, late 2012 is when we started down. And I'll say both, you know, that the organization I went to in Special Tactics was just standing up at that time and H2F, but it never really felt like we were just standing up. It felt like the people there that were doing the mission, it felt like it had been going on for years, just because of the ability for those teams to work together and start providing immediate benefit with layering in what services were already happening within those two organizations. We're just taking a little bit of time to to feel out the outside organizations, then feeling out our programs, but pretty quickly worked together to to get after the goal, which is performance and optimization.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

That's cool. I mean, that's that's a cool perspective. You said you were you were also a collegiate athlete.

SPEAKER_05 7:55

I was a division three collegiate athlete that occasionally got on the field, but still claim the claim is collegiate athlete, yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

There it is. I mean, well, you know, I mean, interestingly, we actually were just talking, you know, about like college versus professional versus the military and how they provide their human performance teams and what they think is, you know, valuable to put on there. The takeaway, like one of the takeaways was that professional teams and the military both have a bit of a mandatory structure. You know, there's like H2F, you're gonna see that at any base that you go to, but college doesn't have like a mandatory team like setup. And from D1 to D3, it gets, you know, even less. So I'm curious, like you mentioned something about you know wanting your work to be more than like just a process, it kind of hinted at relationship in there, right? So where'd that come from?

Why Relationships Beat Raw Expertise

SPEAKER_05 8:55

Yeah, I just think over time, right? I find being exposed to a lot of other professionals, right? A lot of peers, a lot of mentors, a lot of uh subordinates now being in some management roles. And I watch people who are incredibly talented and are probably the smartest in the room, can't build a relationship and they can't communicate. There, it just doesn't translate. And I and I watch these people work really, really hard to try and make an impact and it can't be covered because of it. And that and that's why I say relationship. And we saw that a lot at the um, you know, as a collegiate athlete at the division three level, we didn't have a lot of resources, we didn't have a lot of support. It it was us as a team and our ability to function together and be a team and have a relationship. You know, I uh played lacrosse, you know, there are about 50, 50 athletes on the team. Uh we had two coaches. So two coaches need to manage 50 folks, which made our the importance of us having a good relationship and communicating imperative over anything else. Any play, our best player, our worst player, our ability to communicate with each other. Then I saw that as I, as I transitioned from an athlete to a strength and conditioning coach, you know, I these are these are things I didn't know until I started working with multiple teams. So every team's got a different culture, a different way of doing things, a different way they talk to each other. And you, as persistent coach, athletic trainer, whatever that support staff is, you're coming into that world. So your ability to build a relationship is paramount so you can learn how to communicate and then start implementing your subject matter expertise into that population you have. You know, working in multiple men's teams, multiple women's teams, and then getting into the tactical realm where all of a sudden I'm not 10 years older, five, ten years older than everyone else. I'm the same age or younger than most of my population in the special operations world. So now relationships are huge, right? Because they look at you as you you better know your stuff and you better provide me something that I need, or I'm probably not gonna use you. So building that relationship, building that trust with your subject matter expertise. And then once you've done that, now you can layer in all your knowledge and things because folks trust you, they have a relationship with you, they find you dependable, they find you reliable, and then you get I think Matt and I talked a little bit about this when he was the he was a devil, is that you you end up earning blind trust, which is a good thing and a bad thing. Um that's huge. Your your ability to build that relationship, give good, solid advisement, subject matter expertise, and and and then you you you earn the trust. So right to me, I equate relationship with trust. Um I'm gonna have a relationship with a if I trust you. Uh if I don't trust you, probably not. And that's right, wrong or otherwise, kind of how I view the world and how I think people look at me and interact with me. So yeah, that's I I don't see how you're successful without the relationship. Now it can be a good one, it can be a bad one. You you can pander to what people want, and that's why they like you and you have a good relationship. Or you you can learn that trust and and drive hard and and give them give them the things they need and sprinkle in what they want.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I think pandering is also it lacks sustainability, right? So it's a it's a short-term solution that'll turn into a long-term problem.

SPEAKER_05 12:44

Oh, you know, you you it's the give an inch, take a mile, right? So I pander to you and I do this thing, and I and and I give you what you want, and I don't give you any guardrails around you what what you want. And then you come back and it's like, hey, remember when you programmed that piece or we built this education program, I want to do that again. And all of a sudden you're thinking to yourself, oh well, I gave you what you wanted, not what you needed, and now I'm in this endless cycle of never giving you quite to what you need, making what you need what you want. Yeah, so it becomes quickly unsustainable and makes you relatively unhappy.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

And I think when you look at when you look at that, it's not it's not an authentic relationship. And in sport or tactical, if you're not authentic, then you know, they're they're going to use you, and you're gonna feel like you have to give them what they want, so they keep coming back, and at the end of the day, they're just you're just gonna burn out. You're gonna drive yourself crazy trying to keep the people happy in a way that's not true to who you are or the culture within the team. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, I think I think relationship you mentioned the blind trust, which when I'm saying we're thinking about that term, and I I agree with you, especially in, you know, maybe you can speak a little bit to this in the collegiate space, but like in the military space of and I would say the first responder space of that when you establish that relationship or trust with certain levels of leadership, then it like it does immediately turn into blind trust where you'll have people you'll have their subordinates that come into your office or come into your space and will literally do whatever it is you say because they're higher up said. So when I do that too, then you mentioned that that can be a good thing and a bad thing. I think it can be a blessing and a curse depending on whose hands it falls into. But I I wanted to kind of circle back to like again to what you said about relationship, right? So some of the research that is out there that talks about like access to care, especially in a performance team, immediately highlights it's the leadership, right? It's the coach, it's the commander a lot of the research I found was about their attitude towards mental health. I'm turning this into a question because I'm curious from your perspective, especially from like the physical perspective. Do you think that if the commander or the coach is against or gives off the perception that they're against taking care of your mind, that that will trickle down into the other five pillars and that people would then, you know, they wouldn't listen to their bodies, etc. Like, do you think there's a correlation there?

SPEAKER_05 15:32

I mean, I 100% do. You know, I I I can't back it up with any research that I've ever done because I don't do research, right? Like, but practical application and time, absolutely. I would, you know, we find this across book lines, right? Collegiate tactical, the two spaces I've been in is the the leader will set the tone, right? And the leader's visions, priorities, directives, whether or not people buy into that or they don't buy into that, they will they will follow that lead and they will they will parrot that all the way down to the lowest level. Now, everybody will set their own priority. They they they may not agree with that leader and they may feel, you know, hey, this section is more important. Let's say, you know, sleep's always a big one in the tactical field. You may have a somebody at the middle management or middle leader level that that does value it and they implement as they can, right? But they still need to follow that. A lot of times that vision and guidance is their their potential personal belief flows into that, right? And that's usually based on experiences. When I was doing X, it looked like this. I I do the same thing to my kids. I'm like, you guys don't understand. I used to walk to school, you get rides to school, you know, completely irrelevant to what's best, but but that's what I did and tell myself I turned out okay, right? So like, oh, that's what they need to do as well. But I think that it's changed, right? In in in the 21 years since I've started like CleanGit World, especially at the time, for us as support staff, mental health never really came into it. And and as a young naive coach, I didn't understand uh impacts, right? I'm like, well, we gotta we gotta train today, and we have this, you need to hit this percentage on your back squad. And if you don't, you you you failed for the deck, irrelevant of whatever else is going on in your world.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah.

Leadership Attitudes Shape Every Pillar

SPEAKER_05 17:27

And just just lack, complete lack of understanding from somebody who is leading, you know, I think hours, hour and a half a day. I I led those athletes. There, their sports coaches weren't there. I was there leading them to do what they needed to do. And and I think on the tactical side we use a lot of buzzwords like like grit resiliency. We never think we never truly think of it as overall mental health. You know, we clearly got to do hard things, right? And and hard things are good to do for new posture to understand why you're doing them, how to get through them, self-awareness to know where you're starting to maybe make a left turn when you make a right turn. So I I when we say mental health too, I I watch it seep into everything else, really now being part of an interdisciplinary team. Soldier maybe come in and say, Hey, you know, I brain fog. I I can't concentrate, I'm not having a hard time comprehending or going, oh, okay, yeah, we will get you into our attention class, or we'll get you this class or this class. And then what great providers around me help me understand, well, that's good, but have we looked at the vitamin D level? Are they in pain? Are they having low performance? Hey, all these things are potentially coming together to cause this singular problem where all the education in the world isn't gonna fix it, right? But maybe testing for or looking at this one other piece will help start to address the problem and then layer in. So kind of jumping around here, but that's what I've started to think about as mental health, right? There's what's the physical component to it? What's the social component? What are the things we could teach you all the skills in the world to help mitigate it, but but that may not solve the problem. So I think getting, you know, it's taking me 20-some years to kind of learn that lesson. So taking uh and communicating that to leaders who aren't touching the human performance field eight to 10 hours a day, every day, and giving it a digestible advisement that they can implement without changing their world. I I think that's what changes. I don't look at any, I've never looked at any coach or any leader and said that person doesn't care about the people under them, whether it's their players or their soldiers. It is the ability to affect change in a way that the mission can still be complete or the game can still be important. That I think that's what we're I think that's the world as human performance professionals that we need to start really getting in. And a lot of people are doing a really good job at asking.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

In your current role, you play a role in the people you bring onto the team. How does this philosophy that you're talking about, I heard you say, you know, that I don't think that their heart is in the right place or that they don't care about somebody, but maybe there's misinformation, miseducation, a different perspective that's causing a different impact from their intent? How does that carry over to you as the head of a huge interdisciplinary team, get the people that you bring onto the team who could be incredibly intelligent experts in their field, get them all together to say, like, to follow that whole person frame?

Defining Mental Readiness As Whole Health

SPEAKER_05 20:56

Yeah, when I when I figure that out, I'll let you know. But what we try and do is, you know, everybody who comes onto this team has a education and career requirement, whether it's our active duty folks, our federal civilians, andor our contractors, every everybody somewhere in that flow has to meet a requirement to be on the team, whether it's degree, experience, certifications, licensures. So we already know that we have a bunch of well-educated staff members who have been doing the job for at least three years. So their base level of knowledge in their mind is, hey, I can communicate with with anyone with my base level of knowledge. I think what they they struggle with is their base level is a lot higher than others because that's not the others' expertise. So what we try and do is we try and say, hey, communicate at your lowest level. What are the digestible pieces that you can give other sections so they can understand what you are trying to do and the impact you're trying to make? You know, we'll we'll start there. We try, and what we what we still do with our onboarding is we have every new member of the team shadow other sections and sit down with other sections so they understand what they are doing. If if you know, uh start out strong conditioning coach, I had never worked with an occupational therapist until 15 years into my career. So my understanding of what an OT does is I Googled it. Okay, set up guest spaces and they go to people's houses and they teach them how to do things. And then I was looking at pediatric occupational therapy. Well, I got down in that rabbit hole, I don't know, but I'm looking at things and I'm trying to figure out like how in the world am I going to integrate this career field, right? Because you go and the people you go. To have and you're going to work with, you try and do your due diligence and understand. Well, I'm I'm all Googled out. I I arrive at the brigade and I meet Matt Bauman, our first occupational therapist. I just looked at him, I said, Hey, listen, I I Google this stuff. What do you actually do? Right? And his ability to come in actually does what his levels of expertise was and what parts of expertise he used to implement change was wildly helpful. Now, the other position I had worked with dietitians before, physical therapists at like trainers, all those positions I had been around. And just kind of how Matt was able to explain what he did and how he did it. Okay, we need we need to do this across the staff. And every time we bring a staff member in, we need to go through this process. So not only do we do that for our expertise, we also have a H2F NCO. So we we ask them to develop an Army 101 platform. Not only understand what each other does, but also understanding what our population does. A good amount of staff has never stepped foot in the tactical space before. And I and I can empathize with that because I did that in 2012. I didn't know any ranks, I didn't know what meant. I didn't know what the thing on your chest was, I didn't know why somebody was forwarding the other person, right? That was just didn't didn't know, right? Googled it, but still, still didn't know still. So one of the best things that happened to me was we had to activate a physical therapist. And I was just, we worked the same building. I was just at her desk every 20 minutes. Danny, what does this mean? What does it mean when somebody does this? What does this acronym acronym mean? And just peppered it and peppered her with questions because we didn't, you know, we were starting to think we didn't have anybody to foresee, like maybe somebody would come in and not understand structure, culture, do those things. So, you know, that's that's the level we try to operate at to get other people to understand what the others are doing and then make it digestible to our population. I think that is the hardest thing. How I how I'm going to communicate with a private first class in a kernel about our expertise and what we're doing are two very, very different things. And it's two different knowledge levels just because of career age, let alone actual biological age. So just having a strong baseline understanding of what others do, the population you have, and then how to communicate that. That's what we really try to get after with the staff, not their expertise. That's that's for them. You you tell me what the right expert answer is, and then what I will try to do for you is help you communicate that out and up so we can make that impact you want to make. Varying success levels.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah. I think that is one of the when we when we look at pressure, whether consultant, you know, team member of a HP team, the expectations are set, but you're also given the guidance and the understanding of what and how to go about it right from the job. I love Matt Bellman to death. Because again, that was my first experience with an occupational therapist. I too was like, what is this? And as a CPS coming in to an OT that is the leading mental readiness team, I'm kind of going, what where do you get your mental readiness training from? And I think what we saw over time, at least from my students to have you have your occupational therapist that kind of specialize in one thing. But they all have a basic understanding of occupational interest, combat occupational stress, right? And being able to understand how they work in the army setting from that standpoint, and how I could assist them in understanding various ways to enhance what they've already been taught through like the the cost course. But I think it also doing those onboardings really help you remove some of the pressure of the SME when they come in because expectations are laid out. I think first brigade did really well with that part.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

You think that that I'm sorry, but you think that's like that removes pressure from the SME coming in?

SPEAKER_00 28:00

I do. I didn't feel as much pressure. Once I once I once I started to learn more from the other domains at a very basic level, I either knew exact I either knew exactly how I could work with them or I had a better understanding of how to utilize them in that interdisciplinary team. So if I had someone that had brain fog, I knew that I could talk to them about sleep. I knew the occupational therapist could talk to them about sleep. And over time I developed an understanding that there could be blood work that the dietitian could be doing to assist in that. Looking to the strength coaches of are they overtraining? I think having that basic level understanding of the the other domains, the other means, lowered the pressure for at least for me to perform because I knew where I could go if I needed help.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Communication relationship.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Well we I mean we can look we can look at the recent article that was uh published on the you know ROI of H2F. You can control F that quit and type in trust, and there's 50, 50 points. I'm just throwing out a number, but there's a lot of points in there that will bring up trust throughout the entire article. So we already kind of talked about it, but trust is where you get it. But what I also think that article hit on really well was how quickly the service members could get treatment.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Like access to care.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah.

Onboarding For True Interdisciplinary Work

SPEAKER_01 29:53

I agree. I think access to care and treatment from a proactive or like I don't even, I don't like proactive, it's like interactive. It's like, you know, it's like interactive care, interactive engagement, you know, while you're in performance, right? It's not reactive. We didn't wait until it got bad, but it, you know, but it's there in in case of um in case the reaction is needed because accidents happen and injuries happen. It's not proactive, which we've found is also really beneficial. And I I know that these programs try and build that stuff into training where necessary, but it's like it's like interactive. You know, it's like touching a problem before it's a problem. It's it's managing things at the subclinical level. I want to say like you describe your philosophy like like a very well-organized CEO, like the person who understands that you're sitting in the seat and you understand you're not holding yourself to being the expert across the domains. You hold yourself to finding like the most valuable experts for your team. And I think that that's like like kudos, like shouting out, you know, like applauding. Like that's a really great philosophy that, you know, putting it out there for those that want to climb into your seat as one of the gold ticket GS human performance positions out there.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

I think a important thing to do or understand is our position specifically. We are able to pick and select some of our staff. I think uh, and I'll put it in three layers, you know, our active duty folks, we're we're advising as we go through the ink cycle, we're advising command of hey, we think this person would fit really well with us. We think they can do the mission of what First Brigade HGF wants to do. And then, you know, part of that system is that person matching back with you. So, hey, you're you're our number one match, is that person? Are we their number one match? And when we get those, we do really, really well, right? Because it's like-minded thinking and we go through that interview process to make sure we have that fit. Very similar on the the GS side, you know, we got we got our applications in, we we built out our hiring team. A big part of what we did is work with with our leads and and and our subject matter expert folks to say, hey, from your lens as a human performance professional and your expertise, what kind of person do you need to work with for you to be successful? Because if I bring someone in who's not open-minded to one of the sections or pillars of H2F, we're we're never going to achieve an interdisciplinary team. So very similar to how we move through our active duty process. You know, we'll we'll go through an interview process, we'll advise the command. We think this person fits really well. You know, commit all commands are different. Sometimes they, you know, are both our active duty and our GS. They want to talk to those people too, uh, make sure they meet their vision. And then we come to an agreement of who we we think is the best, and then we hope they think we are the best, and then we, you know, send out the offer, that person comes to us. Our contract side is very interesting, not out of the realm of normalcy, but comparative to a personal services contract, being non-personal services. Uh, we we don't select our staff that comes in on contract, the contract company does, and then they place them in the unit. So I don't know who is going to fill my position till about a week before when they usually reach out and say, This person is coming to you, and this will be their start day. You know, our contract team is a blank slate the day they arrive.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Yeah.

Translating SME Knowledge For Soldiers

SPEAKER_05 33:47

That is that is when we start feeling them out. That is one of the main reasons we built our whole onboarding piece. Um, I want to expose you to all the things so you can come back to myself or your section lead and talk about things maybe you don't understand that you're uncomfortable with, that you really want to dive into and you really want to be part of. So, you know, this even if the best vetting and the best interview process, you you still have misses and you get folks that come in and they're for something you thought they weren't gonna be. But the first time working on a non-personal service contract was really interesting because these folks are here, they're embedded, they're there to do the job. Now we got to get you on the same path of what we're trying to do to build this program. So figuring out what you are good with, what you are not, why you are uncomfortable maybe working with another section, maybe why you are stepping over your lane into their lane. And the good thing I would say over time is we found none of it's malicious, it's just understanding. So, okay, hey, we're gonna we're gonna roll back into education. The more education I can give you, it means the more you're interacting with that other lane, and then you're building trust, right? And then you build your relationship, and then all of a sudden you can start working together. I think a lot of our team goes, Well, why isn't that section doing this? Or why don't they find this to be a priority? And it is usually they just don't understand. A little story when when Matt came and started working for us, and yay uh was on the team. We had these PT sections, and they said, you know, command, awesome, they asked for this. Hey, we'd love to do some cognitive stuff in there. So I come back to Matt. I'm like, hey, do some cognitive stuff for PT. That's like we can, but it's really not gonna do anything. It's not gonna, you know, they're we're trying to make change, right? That's not gonna make big change. I was like, okay, I don't understand what's the big deal about doing a map or this or that thing. Well, it's gotta have some kind of effect. So slowly along the way, and this is this is why I love Matt. Matt was like, you know what, we're gonna do it. We're gonna make the thing happen, we're gonna expose them to mental readiness, right? We're gonna give them a little bit of what they want, and then we're gonna give them what they need. But what he did a really good job is he used his SME experience to teach me as the program manager as I go out and talk to these commanders and and in upper level leadership of what actually does make an impact. And why a 20-minute back-end, what we would call quote unquote cognitive at the end of PT isn't achieving what the command is hoping to achieve, which is which is change, which is maybe increased attention span, better marchmanship, doing, doing all these things that make their soldiers better and more ready. So, you know, that was a learning experience for me. I have I have a CPS, this is awesome. Uh embedded in the unit, right? Uh the my other position, it was the the CPS we had was at one unit, and then the other one was spread out across all the other units. So it was never a day-to-day with that person. You know, I got Matt now. But he did a really good job of never just saying no. And I feel like that is where a lot of our subject matter experts that are on interdisciplinary teams, they get to their failure point because they say, Well, there's no benefit to this, so I'm not gonna do it. And forward thinking of, hey, you asked me to do this thing because this is what the command wants. You don't know what should be done, so I'm gonna support you and my teammates in hosting this session and doing what was asked of me, and then slowly implement the things that make change, right? And this is what I try to get across to our staff, and Matt did a really good job because he did those things, and then the battalions and the companies and the platoons started seeking him out, right? How do we get a hold of Matt? We want to talk to him. They didn't ask him to come run back in cognitive games at the end of a PT session, ask him go to the field. They asked him to say, Hey, I I want to do better at this. How can you help me do that? So that is you know, that kind of exposure and willing to do what somebody thinks they need or they want, and then transferring it to what they actually need. Then we can use people like, you know, for myself as as a program director, I can use those case examples to staff when they are they're questioning what is the reason they are doing things. Well, hey, I know you don't love this, but if you do this, it'll lead you to do what you want to do, which you're telling me will have the most impact. And because you built a relationship with me, I trust you, I'll support that, and I'll press for that thing to happen, which using this, that things, this stuff, that stuff, what that equates to into is priority and time from a commander. I prioritize human performance and I give time to human performance. And that's where our and that's where our SMEs go to work. And then they know how to work with each other and drag everyone else in.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

That was my that was my favorite part when a strength coach would be like, I don't know why they're not working with me. Well, come with me to the field, and I would drag them out to the field, and it was like a I don't know, it's like another culture shock. They come into the unit shocked at the tactical world from very surface level, but then you take them out in the field and they actually see how the paratroopers are moving. So then they go back and they're like, man, this was great. And they are come, they have more buy-in now and more trust, the trust that you're trying to drive into the schmees because they went and got a little dirty and they got to see what it was really like out in the field from a deeper level.

SPEAKER_05 39:59

I think it forces you to use your use your teammates more as well, right? You've gone out to the field, you've you've built some relationship, you've built some trust. Folks have seen you. Now they're starting to ask you for product or services. So now you you're more invested, right? So, well, I'm more invested, I want to build this relationship, I want to give them the performance or the benefits they're looking for. When you look at human performance, what are we judged on? The success of others, not the success of ourselves or hidden spreadsheets. And I know they talk about ROIs for all our programs and sort of return on investment, how much money are we saving? I don't talk to too many other program directors or people on teams or people on my team that think about that at all. All they think about is the success of others. But to that point, is that okay, okay, and it's fine, you know, well, pressure, right? Under pressure. That is where I feel the most pressure, the lean on my team and my staff so we get the best product out there to do the thing. But it is to get to that point, it's just so simple. It's like you said, just go out to the field, be where they are, go go understand. And you don't have as a subject matter expert, you don't have to give any of your core principles up, right? If uh you're strengthening the training coach and you believe in the Olympic lifting principles, and that is your base layer of your how you build program. You don't have to give any of that up. You just need to modify it. I'm probably gonna need to lean on the mental readiness team, the nutrition team, the injury control team to make sure they can achieve the goals with me while also achieving the goals of their job, right? Or or the other things they want to do in their life or need help with. So yeah, to that point, I you can't underscore just being around the people you're trying to influence, you know, out outside of your build.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Who's the safest person to be vulnerable with from your observation, working in it, overseeing it across three models? Collegiate model, potif model, H2F model.

SPEAKER_05 42:13

So the question would be what other staff member would go interact with the most?

Access To Care And Trust As ROI

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah, I mean, you know, so the the PODIF model, they have clinicians built in. At this point, I know that they have clinicians and CPSs. We know the H2F model has has a lot of people who like, because athletic trainers historically are the person that people go to on a lot of athletic teams. You guys also have CPSs, you also have OTs, and then the collegiate space, it's a mixed bag. Um, but you know, from your boots on ground experience in each of these models, what did you observe as you know, the person that would get that from the the player, the athlete, the soldier?

SPEAKER_05 43:00

I think you can broad stroke say your strength and conditioning coach is probably your most touched upon sensor because they will spend, in theory, they will spend the largest amount of time with the largest population, whether that person's high performing, whether that person's injured, you know, especially in the collegiate space where you need off-season strength and condition five days a week. In season, you're going a couple times a week, but your coach is probably out there in all, whether it's 10 athletes on the team or 50 athletes on the team, they're gonna cycle through strength and conditioning. And I'd say the the close, close second in that model would be athletic training. But the athletes they get are more vectored into somebody who is injured, has been injured, recovering from an injury. I'll put one little asterisk on that. The the athletic trainer's job at the collegiate level, at least when I was in the collegiate world, they were the jack of all trades. They did all the things because the at the time, most schools, especially our smaller and mid-major schools, this the sports staff was the strength coach. There's the athletic trainer. That that is who worked for the school in terms of team and performance. But a lot of schools were doing a good job of bringing in on a contract, whether it was physical therapy services or a sports psychologist, or maybe just some someone from the school psychology department was coming over and supporting. But in terms of seeing athlete faces every day, those those two.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:33

Now when we moved on over to tactical, it's it's a little bit different because not everyone has to go come through the strength and conditioning staff, right? Are you at a unit where fitness is your personal responsibility? You know, some of the soft units where, hey, this is the time we have to PT, you go and PT. You might not do it as a team, you might do it as a team, you might do it individually, you're consulting with your staff. So you The sensor level goes down a little, but your your folks who are injured kind of float over to your injury control section. And now you have a physical therapist and athletic trainer. So once again, athletic trainer is going to kind of triage the folks out so they're going to see a lot. I think when you get to H2F, I couldn't right now today pinpoint who a soldier would go to. I think that's five years in, at least what I'm seeing in our unit, is there's enough awareness by the soldier to kind of vector themselves into who they need to see, instead of having folks walk in our door and say, I don't know who to see, but here's what I got going on. Okay, we'll get we'll get you to the right person. You know, I think in the initial stages, probably shrunk and conditioning the most because we had 14 coaches and they were all out in the battalion. So they were seen. They they were there. Now more often than not have a soldier walk in the door, walk down the hallway. I am the last office in the hallway. Somehow they make it past all the other offices and get to mine. So kudos on them for getting their extra steps in. But they say, Oh, hey, where's the CPS? I want to do marksmanship. Or somebody comes in, hey, you know, I have a lower body injury. What room are the athletic trainers again? Or have you seen insert one of our staff members' names? So it's exciting for me to see if we have folks now who identify the SME that they need to start with. And that's how we look at it. That's the SME you start with, it's probably not the one you end with. Because if you're coming in for anything from injury to mental readiness to performance, I can guarantee you can benefit from one of the other teammates. And we're gonna we're gonna take you through that cycle and see what fits for you and see what sections can support you the best. And that may very well may just be one at that time. But very rarely you're gonna walk out of our building if you come in for a muscles, what we call muscle, muscle skeletal sit-call, where you can just walk in and get an injury address at an open time. You're gonna, before you walk out, you're gonna meet your shank coach and you're gonna talk to them about programming. And if there is any, you know, we'll have some questions about hey, you do eat how many meals a day do you eat? Do you drink milk? You know, just making these questions up.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Yeah. But hey, are do you eat vegetables?

SPEAKER_00 47:56

In the field, yes, I vomit my milk.

SPEAKER_05 47:59

But we get, you know, we'll get you to the dietitian because what we know is that the smee you came in to see is going to help you make incredible progress, but it might not get you to where you want because of some secondary factors.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 48:12

And I I still have an issue. There isn't a secondary factor that could be supported by someone we have on the team. And we don't have everyone on the team. So if it's something out of our realm, we have a relationship with our PAs, we have a relationship with the with our R2 team. We work to have relationships and some trust with these organizations, whether they're in the brigade or outside of the brigade, that we can get people to. We have a pretty robust TBI program.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:45

That's a reading team does an amazing job with.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

You can warm handoff.

Field Immersions And Real-World Buy‑In

SPEAKER_05 48:51

We can't stop at all. And guess what? We have on base we have center for the intrepid. We can do our maximum capability, and then when we've exhausted that, we can get them to the next level of care easily. And that's just how we look at it internally, too. There's only so much that a strength coach can do before an AT needs to jump in. There's only so much an AT can do before the PT needs to jump in. And we will flow through that process, but you're going to meet everybody. That's the goal at this.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

I love, I love you taking us through just the interdisciplinary symphony, right? Where like everybody just, you know, plays a role and comes in when it's time. It's really cool to hear what you've been able to observe over the the development of the H2F program to see, you know, where you started and, you know, trying to get people to understand each plane while you're trying to understand each plane to five years in or seeing that language get normalized and that expectation of people coming from other spaces where H2F also exists. It really speaks to the the scalability, which is such a difficult thing, right? It is so difficult to take a program and try and standardize it, but ask for expertise within it and then scale it to cover a million people. So I I love I love what you just said. This isn't just me you'll probably end with, but let's start there. And that was that's such a a great illustration of a model that's working.

SPEAKER_05 50:22

We would love to provide conscier service. We talk about it all the time, and and you know, folks in the in the tactical uh world or even a collegiate world, smaller teams, less population, those things become easier. And then as the program or the size of your population grows in the program you're in, you know, scalability becomes key, you lose some of that fontier service, you lose some of the personal part of it, some of the relationships, some of the trust. But you know, if you have a process in and and they get to talk to and touch multiple people that are going to support them, you kind of it's almost like you build some group trust in there too. Because I I think that's something I've learned as I've learned real as I've lost really good staff members to go on and do bigger and better things and and go or go to jobs in regions that are closer to their home, is that you know, I I rely so much on their single ability. How do I transport that to the group? So when I when I lose that person, we don't lose everything we've built and every program we built doing.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Yeah, turnover can be tough.

SPEAKER_05 51:33

I don't like it, especially when my good folks leave. That that makes it extremely hard is when our our our our people who are really ordinary and believe in interdisciplinary, they move on to the next thing. But you know, we you never want to stand in the way of somebody going on to something bigger and better. So yeah, we just you know, how do we how do we build that? How do I capture your trust when you leave and can continue it on in that relationship? And I think that's where it goes. You start with it, you start with one SME, but you end with another.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Do you think that you're educating these individuals on lifestyle?

SPEAKER_05 52:14

You know, when I when I first came in, I would have said no. But now I see it more and more every day. What we're doing and how we make an impact and what they're willing to latch on is much more about things that are happening in their everyday life as opposed to this one single goal. I want to back squat 450 pounds. I want to go to selection and pass. I want to go to ranger school and pass. These are things they they want to do, but their lifestyle is what seems to make the most impact. Just those little day-to-day things that that that we can help them influence better food choices, better sleep choices, better recovery choices. And um, so yes, I I I see us in a where we're doing a lot more lifestyle things with some high performance mixed in. Um, we just actually had a meeting with some public health reps the other day, and I'm talking about nutrition and realized, hey, there is there's a lot of carryover of what we're talking to soldiers about and and the product that public health is putting out. So it it's interesting of what you think your program is going to be and how you're gonna make impact versus what it becomes. I I think you know, for us, wearables might be a good example of that, where you know, we thought wearables would be this big high performance thing, but it it turns out our busy biggest success with the wearables was people just changing their lifestyle, going to bed a little bit early, maybe bringing down some alcohol content during the week so they can get to to sleep better, understanding. Oh, yeah, actually did train pretty hard. Maybe I should recover from that. So it's there's those micro things that you do every day, which I mean you really could equate to high performance, because this is what high performers do, but we're but we're teaching and impacting at the most basic level. Um I think sometimes for our staff that's not maybe exciting, but it's wildly impactful.

Who Soldiers Actually Go To First

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah, I mean, but that's it, but that is like you said, it's it's the micro level moves, right? And you're teaching, I think wearables are I think wearables all turn turn us into you know gaming characters because then it gives all of us like our health meter, which makes it so we're like, I haven't eaten, I haven't slept, like my health meter is down, which is really valuable for a lot of us. And so I I think that they're great tools, but I was asking because I I wanted to kind of touch on the I think that the the article that Matt just talked about, the one that just came out about the ROI of H2F and the value that's in there, right? That the numbers are really speaking for themselves, which I think and I look forward to what additional research that may produce in as far as like transitions and you know future retired soldiers to come who went through, you know, who now went through their career with a model that told them to take care of themselves down to the micro level. And then the third piece of that, which I mean we can speak to the article in just a second, but this I'm thinking of the retired soldier, and then I'm also thinking of, you know, the soldier who is now potentially facing higher rotation of deployment with everything that's going on and how H2F is really going to be tested and and I mean positively so I think. But have you seen the article that we keep talking about, Hunter? You're familiar with that?

SPEAKER_05 56:08

We have gotten it in and we have all the PDs have immediately distributed it to the staff.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

I think it it it was a great.

SPEAKER_05 56:19

Yeah. Well, because I what I will tell you is in day-to-day operations embedded in the unit, you definitely don't understand the positive impact that is actually happening, right? Right. All day unit, you're working the five-meter targets, you're most likely going to, or at least as a program director, is you're you're working with maybe something that's not going right, or someone that's unhappy, or someone who needs something or didn't have a good experience, right? Nobody's swinging in the office to tell you, spend 20 minutes with you telling how you how awesome everything is. You get a thumbs up, you know, out in the building, you know, like, okay, but for the staff who comes in eight hours a day, five days a week, it's it's hard to see all those things add up until an article comes out like that. So yeah, I think I, you know, I think any study that comes out in any article kind of reaffirms that while if you ask the staff that's embedded are are they do they think they're making the maximal impact they could be, their their answer is always going to be no, right? Because if we wanted to, we'd I think we'd all say half a soldier's day should be spent on human performance. And then the other half of the day, their leaders can have them messed. That is in no way, shape, or form realistic. But I think it's we'd love to have, right? I'd love to have you for 120 minutes for your PT session to include warm-up training, proper cool down and recovery, you know, and then you go do uh your mental readiness workshop, and then you go to your specific D fac with multiple stations with your dietitian that you're doing thing, right? So we know none of that's gonna happen. We operate in 90-minute clips, you know, 90 minutes in the morning, you have to institute most of your PT. And then throughout the day, you probably have maybe 45 to 90 minutes one other time to have an impact, whether it's an LPD, a class, a course, whatever it is. Unless you're going out field, then you're with them, but you're more of an observant boss at that point. But you know, so you see that you see there's impact, and and like you're saying, like, oh H2F may get it, may get a test, and they may be test it, prove their prove their worth. I think the day to day it's so hard. And that's why I say I'll sit in my office at the end of the day and be like, okay, did what what did we do today? What did we do this week? How do we make an impact? And even for me at the program director level, sometimes it's tough. I know we saw a lot of people, I know we did a lot of things. What's this gonna translate to down the road? Like, I'm gonna take five meter targets, but I'm really looking you know, 3,000 meters ahead of what comes because we did this thing. Um conversation if if you're constantly pandering to what people want, your down the road's not not gonna be what anyone needs. And right so yeah, I just think doing those those micro things day after day.

One Entry Point, Many Teammates

SPEAKER_01 59:28

That's what I was gonna say the best you can. It's the tiny changes, but I think you bring up something though that I think is so valuable, right? Like that the it the change is not massive. Like when you're doing what I've coined interactive care, right? Like when you do interactive care, it's really little. It's uh it's little changes. It's you know, I mean, like we teach our like we teach things all the time that are, you know, reset your nervous system, get your breathing back on track. Like those skills are really tiny. Adjust your sleeping habits by this much, add this into your diet, right? They're really, really tiny, sometimes really simple changes. But the numbers, this I mean, I don't know. I think the impact of this study, so and and we'll we'll reference the study for everybody that we're talking about. Like we'll we'll put the link in so you can bring it up. But it is I'm so excited for you guys for the numbers in the study, right? To show like a massive drop in musculoskeletal profiles, substance abuse profiles, behavioral health profiles, like literally for everything to come down, but then also for performance to go up, because you know, metrics are really where we can see something being effective or ineffective. And as you were just saying, right, like the 3,000 meter target. You have a study that's showing what's happened over five years, but that is just the tip of the iceberg to the impact that your work is doing with these people that it's done it with, right? Like we've this is just what's been seen in five years, but the I don't know, the evolution of that work remains to be seen. The person that is going to eventually retire and go into another career or you know, have start a family or transition out or deploy or whatever they're gonna do and how much better suited they are for that, that you're right, you may never see. It's a weird it's a weird compliment, right? To think that there will be headlines we never see because of the work that you guys do.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

Yeah, and we think, you know, we think there's correlation to what we do. I'll never say at this point we're the causation, but there's definitely correlation. And I think, you know, the the excitement and the look into H2F is beneficial not only for the human performance, H2F in particular, but I think it codifies some of the things our teammates have been doing for years, our UMT teams who've been embedded in army units forever, our behavioral health officers who are doing a lot with a little, you know, two behavioral health officers in the whole brigade, our medical team who's been taking our PAs, our doc, all our medics out there within the brigade who who, you know, we have in in H2F in particular benefited from all the work they've been doing for many, many years. We've been lucky to come in and integrate with them and and bring a collection of SMEs and some excitement around it where people are looking into it and they're seeing these research as the research people are writing articles, people are starting to use it. And then, you know, so hopefully any success that H2F has, the our our teammates are number one recognized for it outside of H2F and number two, right? Hey, H2F at the end of the day may have a huge, huge causation in all these changes, but we know for a fact without without our chaplains, without our PAs, without our docs, you know, without our teammates in our two, you know, public health, all those pieces of the puzzle that we draw in SME knowledge from and then have the opportunity to institute because we we're lucky enough to be embedded in our units, you know, I look at that as the true integration of every every expert you could have into performance of a of a soldier, a paratrooper, you know, whatever population you're working with. How many how many experts can you draw in to solve that one single problem? So we've been lucky enough to be the vehicle a lot of that's had a lot of tension and a lot of rallying around right now, but for sure want to put a shout out to all those folks we work with.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

For sure. It's gonna make all of them be able to work easier.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:03

When it's out of our right, like, hey, you we we've met our limit, we got to get them to you guys. So you know they they have causation in the product too, and they have correlation. I'm just super happy that H2F has a platform that those things can be shown. And I and I do the articles that come out and the research that comes out always does make a point to that. You just usually see H2F on the high on the headline. Great, great for me. I'm not mad about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Um, but like I don't think but like what I guess what I'm saying though, right? Like the the the trickle down, the ripple effect is you know, like is the articles that don't get right and the headlines that don't happen because of the work here, which positively affects everybody, right? The behavioral health clinic that can, you know, that can spend more time taking care of the people who need to be there, the the doctors, which adds, you know, I mean, we've really talked a lot about the program and how it we've kind of lightly glossed over like how it helps the pressure of the soldier. But now I'm kind of talking about like the capacity we build for the practitioner, right? Like even the the work-life balance, like the behavioral health clinics have been overworked for years. So if theirs, you know, the ability to do their job more effectively means they stay longer, right? The doctors, I mean, obviously the uniform personnel don't necessarily get a ton of say in how long they stay, but all that GS staff, all that contracting staff they do, you know. So again, you're kind of, I guess I'm saying like you're building something that, yeah, I mean, the I think the benefit and the success of it will create a lot of things that don't exist, um, which is a good thing.

Scaling Care Without Losing Soul

SPEAKER_05 1:05:55

Oh, yeah, absolutely. We want at the end of the day, we want these, the, our, our teammates and other organizations to look at H2F the same way we look at them, this this high value thing that we bring, that we bring to the table, just like they bring to the table. And then they can we can provide our expertise, right? So when they have a a problem or a situation, they go, hey, that's the program that we need to send these folks to because they're in embedded in that brigade doing that thing. Awesome. And then that allows us to then send a population right over to them because now we're aligning, you know, we're aligning with with the population with the maybe the program that they need at that time. So that is what that is the good research, and that's what's getting there, and and that's what is, you know, because we walked into HTF as a program in 2021, and you know, we have clinics across the base and the are in the hospital. On our location, and the question was, well, what can you do? How do you do it? What's the benefit? What's the value? You know, we think what H2F can be. And now we're into the point where, you know, we have a clinic that sits right next to our footprint that takes care of the 82nd. And what we have now is that the Robinson clinic in particular knows when our who our providers are, when our sick call hours are. So when they have the appropriate patient that comes in, say, okay, you, you're, you're actually the perfect candidate to go over to H2F. And walk, drive right over to our building and say, Hey, I just went and saw the provider at Robinson. They told me to come on over here. Or we say, okay, who did they tell you to see? And we say they didn't. They say, come to H2F, but this is my problem. So I think I need to see an athletic trainer. Or hey, I think I need to go to mental readiness because they do TBI. And so, you know, I now that I I think inherently we value ourselves, right? It's our programming. But others are starting to value uh what we can bring to the table. So that's so that's a great thing. And I think the research backs that up because I can say all day we've made really solid impact. That's me saying having smart guys like Andrew Thompson and Kevin Bigleman and Sanjay and you know the guys who wrote that research paper, they're adding some objectivity to this objective single day, which is how awesome the team is. And you should use my team and come on over to the devil dome.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

Yeah, numbers, numbers don't lie, and they're fantastic numbers.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

I think one of the coolest things was when the behavior health officers finally understood what the capability of a CPS was. At least at least in first brigade. Because it was one of the coolest things when I'd get a phone call from them and be like, hey, I got this paratrooper. I think they work with you. I think they can I think I can take them off my books and give them to you. And that was that was the best thing because that's when I felt mental readiness took another level. Even though those providers aren't necessarily embedded in with us, they got to a point that was like, we know how to use the CPS. Let's send them to the CPS. And I think that also trickled to me understanding them as providers when I went to the RTC and I needed them before we ever before they ever entered the box. And it was an it was an instant I think you need to go see this provider. Well, they're they're behavioral health. I'm like, it's okay. They got you. And they did. And that to me, when we look at working with, you know, a mental performance consultant, CPS, working with a clinician is or alongside utilizing as a referral is magic.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:19

Oh, yeah. I get I get three three people who show up at my door on a daily basis. The first one was is I I was told to come here. When I was here, I was told to come here. I'm like, oh, we we have some investigating to do so I can figure out who I'm gonna get you to. What do you got on? Who sent you here? Uh you know, you go through about 15 questions. And those are always fun ones because you get to play detective and figure out who they need to go to and then get them to that. That's me to start. The second, the second population is I wanted to come over here and see if you guys could anything, right? See if you could get me appointment, see if you guys could run a PT session for my platoon. Hey, I want to do this thing in the mental rights nutrition. Go through all the sections. You're like, great, awesome. Somebody's taking personal interest in coming and doing the thing. I think my favorite one right now is the third one, which Matt just alluded to. This is, and this has happened more recently, probably in the last two years, is hey, I got referred over to see you guys. And that is, I'm like, yes, we did it, we've made it. Because there is another SME somewhere on installation or in the reggae that has said, I trust this group of people, I trust this program, I want you to get over there and see them. I'm referring them, I'm referring you to go over there. And that could be a cold handoff, a warm handoff if it's medical or message in through the the electronic health record system. But I think the the thing as sitting in the director's seat that makes me the most happy is when, hey, yeah, I was working with so and so, and they said come see you guys, and they highly recommend you. Oh, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:11

Like that's great.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:12

This is the world I love to live in because we try to do the same thing back, right? And we get her back into the first thing we talked about is trust and relationship. And that's the team, not the program, the team, the people on the team have built trust and relationships that now people outside talk well about the program that carries on when there's a changeover of responsibility, change over of command, changeover of SME, you know, the the tactical world where every two years half the population is moving to a new location.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:48

Yeah.

Lifestyle Change And Wearables That Work

SPEAKER_05 1:12:48

Um, so somebody is telling somebody that this this program and this and these people are good and they're they're sending them. I still get a case, I still on occasion get people coming in and looking for staff members that haven't worked here in two years. And I'm like, that person's been gone a really long time. How did you hear that name? Oh, well, I was in the brigade in 21 and I just I'm I'm just coming back. You got back, even if they're still here. Like, wow, you remember that person after X many years. I, you know, sometimes I go home and I forget my kids' name. So, like that's super, that's like super impactful. Yeah, for for for that person who's then gonna go tell other people. We took we talk about this all the time in collegiate athletics and and then and the technical side is do you think your single interaction with someone is not gonna have uh a broad ramification, good or bad? It's the wrong way to look at it because I go back to my team room and then I tell 30 people what how awesome it was, and I got everything I needed. I you you just you you just gain potential relationship and trust with 29 other folks. So yeah, there's just huge value in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Um can't be lost. Even if you didn't talk to them directly, you have an impact on them. They may not be open, but there's an there's there's impact there, and then and that can't be that can't be overlooked. Well, simple, simple presence.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:26

There's no small part.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:28

I mean, everybody's probably experienced this on in this meeting or the call right now is that you have situations where you interact with someone and you are positive that that person will never talk to you again. Like you as a professional helping them do something better. You're positive they will never talk to you again, they hate you, they just don't like you. There's nothing that you could do to make that person like you. Then they leave your organization or unit, and then they come back maybe a year later, maybe two years later, they come back, they come up to you and say, I still use that to the day. And and now I now I use that for my people. And you're just your your mind's blown.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Yeah. You know, like you don't you haven't even seen and you may never see the full impact of what you're doing within this program. One of my last questions is if you were to go back to college, or what is some and or maybe not, maybe you're like, I'm not going back, but what is something that you've learned in the military space about interdisciplinary teamwork that you would strongly encourage your your collegiate colleagues to consider making sure that their team has in place?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:48

I think, you know, especially for the younger staff, is seek out others' expertise and then implement it where you can. You you don't have to be the expert in everything. I think I felt like that as a as a young strength and conditioning coach without access to uh a dietitian, without access to, you know, a a sports psych or performance psychologist or a specialist of oh well I'm I'm the only person, so I better figure this out and and institute it. And you can you can learn a good amount from books and reading and implementing, but your ability to deliver it is what I think will always get lost in translation. So if you don't have those staff members, seek out people that are experts. I mean you the I think the human performance world is great. You can just co-call, you can cold message, you can someone and they will absolutely respond to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:50

Yeah, just build a relationship.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:53

Second person will, like I think, you know, we're always there's always some level of competition. You want to be the best, you want to be good, you want your program to be looked at. But I think people's willingness to share is more readily available than people think. You know, that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:12

Yeah.

Reading The New H2F ROI Study

SPEAKER_05 1:17:13

That's wildly proprietary. Now I understand if people have their own business and their own system, and you know, like you know, don't send send me your book for free. That's not gonna happen. But I could read your book and then email me and ask you some pointing questions and explain my situation of I don't have access to this, but but my population really needs it. And then what can you proxy in? What can you teach? There's always something you can. You just need to stop it when you're no longer the expert. And then I think you know, at the higher levels, you know, if you're if you're a leader in the collegiate world and the human performance world, you may be an AT to T T now, a dietitian, a strength coach, of understanding those things and advocating for those positions with your with your athletic leadership. I'm I'm sure at this point, as much as we know about human performance, the athletic directors are looking at those pieces of the puzzle to fill in. But I but I think the human performance teams are really good advisors on if you're gonna bring a new SME and a new section in, this is probably what you want to look for because this is how we make the most connection with our athletes, our coaches, other support staff. Uh I think you can provide, while you may not be the expert in it, you can provide a unique perspective on integration and how you're already working together with the assets you do have. How does a strength coach an athletic trainer? What's their relationship like? Very, very important to know and understand, especially when you're gonna try and layer in another subject matter expert, because when I go back to what I went to school for, what I thought I was gonna be when I grew up, was a strength and conditioning coach. And I still have to check myself every now and then that strength and conditioning isn't a priority above all other priorities. That's like that's my underlying passion, right? Like that's that's why I went to school, that's why I did this, that helped me as an athlete. Right, but it it carries no more weight than any other section that I am lucky enough to be on a team with or have on a team. So, you know, that's that's what I stay on the collegiate world, especially some of the the smaller schools that struggle with resources, money, the ability to bring those fit uh those positions in is how do you get those positions to consult in? How do you have the staff you have get better at filling some of those gaps while you work on uh uh uh appropriately uh bringing in the level of help you need?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:52

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:53

I think that's what the military did a really good thing with, to be honest with you, is they said, what are all these super important SMEs that are out there that we think impact? Okay, they brought them in, and now you're seeing that as strengthening or strengthenation human performance grows, is we started out as athletic trainers, ATs, and PTs. We're getting dietitians and mental readiness, and now we get, you know, H2F comes along, they have occupational therapists, they have all the assistant positions that come with all the terminal degree specialties, like really thinking through all those layers that can make your team more successful. You know, it we're talking perfect world where you don't have fiscal restraints, but how how do you get those things at the best level you can? And best levels are bringing in the expert, but if not consulting with experts, I think is the second best thing you can you can show.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:53

I was gonna say, I think that's really valuable. It echoes some of the things that Matt and I have already talked about. That it's like I I probably more bluntly said, you know, that not having access to it or not having the money to fund it is is a shitty excuse. That I think as to your point, and maybe that's what needs to be, you know, that's probably a nicer way to say it than I did.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:17

You were pretty you were pretty blunt.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:20

Being at the direct level, I've I have much more willingness to understand the fiscal restraint. I do not like it. I I will say that I do not like it, but I can I can live with the factors that maybe prevent me getting some of the things, i.e. in the micro term, but that's where we go back to that. What's our 3,000-meter target? Is bringing in trust relationship and value. So you have to make a conscious decision not to bring in that thing you need. I think it's easy when it's like, oh, if we had this position, we could do X, Y, and Z because I think it will result in X, Y, and Z. And now we're we're starting to see, hey, these are the really good things that are happening. And here's some gaps we still have, those gaps.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:12

But not, but just because you understand, but that but just because you understand financial constraints doesn't mean that you allow that to be the complete roadblock.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

Oh no, yeah, and we rename into advisement saying, oh, listen, we understand you have a financial restraint, and we say, hey, we have X number of people and this is what we're able to produce. If we had this amount, this is what we're able to produce. And that's why we that's where we try to work the cell when we talk about trying to gain staff and or other specialties. Hey, we can work to the level, but if I had this means they could intertwine with everyone else, but they'd be able to do this thing, and like yeah, I don't it's just the budget request, you know. But I think I'd like to do if I could.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:03

Yeah, wouldn't we all? But I think speaking to the fact that because there's still, you know, again, I think echoing the point that there's a really cool, like if you're if you're bought into the value of interdisciplinary work and you're passionate about being a part of that space, like it is genuinely a network of people who are passionate about what happens when we take care of the whole person. And therefore, you don't need like there's still a lot you can do to prove the value, which you know, H2F and POT, I mean, a lot of their the you know, a lot of the program was built off of some trial and error and some, you know, let's try this and hey, what are you doing? Like listening and adding and being like, this is actually this this value is worth it. Let's let's bring them on full time. I think there's a lot of places out there that don't get to petition for a position until they can prove that the position has value. So work that space then.

Culture Change, Metrics, And Patience

SPEAKER_05 1:24:05

Oh yeah. And for sure, you know, the the longer you're in your organization, the more myopic you you'll look at it and you work with your resources, what you have, what you can do to grow. And and it's a good point that you made. I sometimes forget that you know, not every organization is lucky enough to have a 22-person staff already. Right. So I'm you know, I'm lucky to have a large staff. I know there's there's organizations, collegiate, tactical, like the Leo world, the fire department world, where they're operating off one single person, and then trying to trying to get that next person is a is a monumental task, and it's hard to prove when you don't have that person there to prove the work. Yeah. So sometimes I I go home and I feel sorry for myself that we went from a staff of about 35 down to 22, but um you know, you just nobody else feels sorry for you. Somebody every now and then about how lucky you actually are.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:09

I was gonna say, you got you're talking to people with interdisciplinary teams that made of sticks and duct tape. Like they got a bunch of Wilsons sitting in front of them.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:20

It's it's for those larger organizations to see what limit you can you can push and and services you can provide that show that there's massive value to to a larger team and that when you you you invest more and you you bring more, and I'm not talking investment in terms of equipment. We we love hardware, right? Or even software, but just investing and bringing in more humans is gonna have a greater impact than many other things.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

Yeah. Yeah, my my time with my time with the Air Force, we were, you know, we were a fully staffed, it was, you know, an adorable little four-person team, but we were intense. But we were, you know, a great staffed team with no budget. So we were staffed, but then our resources, you know, was sticks and duct tape. So, you know, but it I think again to your point, like starting somewhere, you know, isn't necessarily the shiniest thing. It might not even be a fully staffed position. There's still a ton of space before that, from like you said, consulting to a webinar to mentoring, coaching, education that can have like a really great ripple effect for your program.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:39

Oh yeah. I think I think what you what you see right now and what you what you clearly define in the very beginning, right? This is not gonna change overnight. Culture doesn't shift in a year. Athletic departments don't want that. Right, they'll hire a head coach and expect a head coach to win a championship of day one. You gotta give time for the culture to grow, to change, to build the team, build the assets, get the resources where you need them, find out where your holes are, right? And I think five years in this is probably a really good time for that article to be published. Because you're starting to see the change, right? Portro comes in, leaves, comes back, and is like, I'm gonna pick up right where I left off and then come because maybe they went to a brigade that doesn't have H2F because it's still growing. I think these newer brigades that start implementing the program will still go through their lumps and bumps, but you're gonna have soldiers that have been a part of H2F programs, and it's gonna they're gonna expectations are gonna be there. Long term, I think we talked 10 years, that a potential culture change in big army would take place. I think you're starting to see it in five and you know, five more years maybe that that change is taking place.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:20

Yeah, yeah, it's tough, right? Like you're just trying to impress the value of what you do to to leaders who are going to influence others, or potentially, you know, in our in our organization, young soldiers that are end up becoming leaders, right? Uh PV2 is very well maybe become the first sergeant years down the road. And they're not gonna forget that positive and/or negative impact your program along the way. And then they're you know, our staff, our job isn't to care for the soldiers on the day-to-day and leave them and supervise them. That's for their together and and their leadership so it's gotta be it's gotta be value to the valuable to that person personally and it's gotta be valuable enough that they prioritize it to of the people under them and and to your point Matt it I I think it's happening a little faster than I expected it to I don't you know human performance programs will never be the culture change of the organization but they absolutely can support it it's essentially educating and in and teaching and that's what we do. I went to coverage 20 something years ago I still talk about stuff my professor taught me in college. I don't even know if stuff from 2004 is still relevant in the world today but what my exercise Fiz professor taught me I still have the notebook for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:52

So it's like it was valuable.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:54

Yeah who are the people that are impactful that are valuable or valuable and then you you start using that yourself. Like I'm not gonna go back to and say oh you know my team is wildly successful because of professor you know but what I learned from him her was very it's something that I connected to I took and then I instituted. So that's you know this is me this is Conor's personal opinion of what I what I hope H2F is and for others and becomes is just a vehicle of advising and education that leaders use their expertise of their organization and their population we love the word optimized to make it more optimized. Like I think to me personally right like that's my win long game and when I you know still got a couple of decades before I can retire but when I walk away right when I'm able to walk away and go live on the beach 247 you know that that's I that's I what I hope the state of human performance is and can be.

Warm Handoffs And Networked Care

SPEAKER_01 1:31:06

Yeah well I think it's we're talking about human performance not athlete or solder right so I think you know to kind of like summarize the use of a word is that we're talking about the whole human and enhancing their performance and the longevity of that reaches like far beyond a career a mission you know a performance and yeah again like you know decades from now when you're chilling on a beach you know like the kind of it'll be cool to to think about the stuff that's coming out then that was influenced by the work that you're a part of now.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:50

Yeah I mean we're we're living in real time benefiting from the folks that were doing this. I mean you look at physical fitness manuals from the army in 1950 I'm super glad somebody was thinking about it way back then because it's benefiting us now. Because the the HPs to me is we're like oh I wouldn't do that or I would do this. But there was research done there was thought put to it at at the time that was the the leading information that you can use. So all those things the the the you know in the soft world the the original cohort of folks in the early 2000s who went into those units when there was absolutely nothing there wasn't even a vehicle it was just a one-off contract there wasn't an off programmatic thing right and those folks went in and did the job and they did it for a long time and you know when you look at programs you know they built those programs and you can even say that for the folks who were on the pilot for H2F like somebody had to be the first to go in there and do it do it. And a lot of human performance professionals took that chance a lot of active VD folks asked to go and and try this new pilot that was coming out and and what it's going to in that short time right yeah you just you you know you know you're in making an impact super hard to see on the daily you have research that comes out that maybe influences the next chapter of human performance and technical this that's the space we live but you can you know an article like that came out the entire performance world can look at that and say oh here's some best practices that we could potentially institute where we are so you know that's that's I think that's the wins you you take away from the performance in real time and and then like you were saying what human performance is and longevity you know you look at it folks you do entire service career they retire and they go on to pursue other things and pain free I I I say this all the time I wish we I wish there was a way to offer ability pay in addition to disability pay right you've had these injuries that accumulated over career right and and those are addressed and you know those those will carry with you in in your time of retirement but what about ability pay so the things you did and were able to do to be proactive or be reactive to the maybe injury you have and you and you do all the things you need to do to potentially maybe decrease the medication you have to take or maybe not have to get a surgery. Those are all individual based but how do we how do we reward you for doing that? Because you're doing all you're doing the really hard part you've had to change your life side you've had to do all the micro things and you know we talk about money and the burden of the healthcare system take a large burden off of that but you know that has to be a highly intrinsic thing right now that you want to do. Yeah I'm just a believer of why shouldn't you be rewarded for doing that thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:11

I love that idea.

Shoutout to Hunter (He's a Gem!)

SPEAKER_05 1:35:12

Yeah reward the reward the people that that do the hard lower my insurance premium so yeah maybe we get maybe that is a maybe that's a long long term ripple effect of having these human performance teams embedded that's my uh way out in the moon and stars I your 30 000 foot view I love it I love that no Hunter I truly you know it was a great conversation I greatly appreciate your time and pulling up a chair with us um I still carry a lot of things that I was taught at the Devil Brigade so and I attest that to you and how you run your interdisciplinary team so I truly appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:02

I pre I truly appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:04

Thank you for sharing some of that with us of you know coming and giving us a little black on the wall view of what it's like to work and what you know in a in a really cool interdisciplinary program.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:15

Yeah thanks thank you for you get having me as Matt knows that I don't talk a ton but when you get me talking I I won't stop because um it's it's it's something that's really cool. I think we're doing something cool and I just think I'm I'm super lucky as I get to come on and and talk about all the success but the success isn't from me it's from the staff I get to work with and get to be around on it just like it it doesn't get done without them.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:42

So like I well they're all very lucky they're all very lucky to have you you are a gem and I know you're gonna you're gonna be like you're gonna be humble and say it's not you but we're gonna they're very lucky to have you that's it might come all that tomorrow.

unknown 1:36:57

Okay.

Lasting Impact Through Small Moments

SPEAKER_05 1:36:59

Great guys sound great.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:02

It's recorded it will be published you can just we'll actually make it its own little chapter this will be clipped. Shout out to Hunter he's a gem I'll play it on loop in the facility that's his wife awesome well thank you so much Hunter we've been so thanks everybody who pulled up a chair with us today you guys know until next time we'll see you here under pressure.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:25

Thanks everyone bye thanks guys